questions about producing

I haven't used fruityloops for a while now. But from what I know from working with with electronic music production software is that when you want to bounce (export) separate audio or vst channels with auxilary fx (send fx). It's when you use the effect for more channels. You just solo the desired channel and the channel of the fx you want to export. Now when you make a mixdown of the track. You have exported one channel mono or two channels stereo with fx. Mono or stereo export is something that you have to choose yourself. It depends if your auxilary effect is also mono or stereo.  Most of the times in program's like logic or cubase auxilary fx channels are automatically been selected to the channel you want to export. I thought that it worked the in fruityloops. Things like for instanse the effect of sidechaining are also heard.Because when you use inserts like compression or gates that trigger the sidechain the signal flow is so that when you mute the channel is played and doing it's work. So you hear the effect of sidechaining on the solo'd channel. So you can bounce channel that way. And then make the mixdown in another digital audio workstation. If you want to have more control in that way over the ratio between auxilary fx and the 'dry' sound. It's easy only bounce the dry and the fx channel seperately. In the analogue studio I send the desired audio and the send fx channel to different recorded channel. You can also send the 'dry channel' to a group bus and mute that bus. Now only the wet sound is received on for instance the master out. When you use another daw to make a mixdown you can termine the ratio between dry/wet. This trick with sending an audio channel to a muted bus is also possible with sidechaining. Then you hear the effect on the affected channel without the sound of the trigger. 

But for what I read is that if you want to use eq's or programmes to control you sound better and give more precise visual presentation in numbers. Maybe try other i.e. eq-plugins than the plugins of fruityloops. What I often do with chunk's of layered sound is to leave a little bit space after the patterns. So that the release with the decay in the amplitude of the fx's and sounds are heard after the events of the pattern. When I have a project that uses a lot of cpu. I make some parts in another project and add them as an audio file in the 'real' project.  

Thanks for your answer! I actually never use the sends, I always use the inserts and then send those to the other inserts. Never tried sends in FL, only on an analog mixer. I wonder in what order they are processed. For example when I put a snare on insert 8 and send that insert to 1,2,3,6 in different amounts, will it go from 1 up or from maximum to down. Or random, dunno. I will try to find a more accurate equalizer to use for the master. Although the parametric eq 2 in FL is quite nice because of the visuals there, it lacks numbers. Maybe there is a combination to find somewhere. When I've found it I will post it here then.

Graag gedaan! What do you mean with an insert from your point of view?  When I talk about an insert I talk about a break in the signal/channelpath where you can patch i.e. a compression in. It works the same with a daw only difference is you klik a mouse button.   Maybe you know it already.. then somebody else proberly can use this info. This is pretty how it in general works. I am to lazy to make a drawing of the channel signalflow. Sorry for if I violate any copyright but hell just check it. I found this by google. It's a pretty basic sceme of a mixer signalflow. Software Instrument/line in/audio track. With fruityloops I believe that you can route the output of the fx to for instance a group bus.  http://classes.berklee.edu/mbierylo/mtec111_Pages/mixing/assets/GB_Signal_Flow.jpg Compressor, limiter, gate, de-esser, eq etc.. is often called dynamic control.

The really basic is that when you want to add up time related fx processing to your audio signal it's is wise to use the auxilaries. Aux return wil come to the master out. When you use compression, limiters, gate, equalisers, filters you make an insert break in the signal patch. You can use the in different proportions on the other audio channel. In example the insert 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. The signalflow goes from 1 to 8. 'A Again an insert is a break in the channelpath' so the whole signal is fed into to it. There are a few things where you have to think of. Again the example:  The inserts 1. 2. 3. 4. is before the eq in the mixer. The inserts 5, 6, 7, 8, are after the mixer. This amount of insert flucturate depending on the mixer charistatics of the daw and mixing console you can work with. The signal flow of a channel goes from 1 to 8. If you insert dynamic processing at particular insert the break in the signal path wil take place it that number because of the device is build to do that in that way or with program it's software architecture. Another common example: You have a nice kick recorded by yours truly. But you have some noise with it. When you equalise it you probaly wil attenuate the noise but it wil also affecting your nice kick sound. With stuff like gating you can gate the noise of the audio channel. With a really shitty soundrecording it's stay's bad but there are also the wonders of granularsynthesis and wavefieldsynthesis maybe you can make it into a somewhat strange fault of nature. But that's another topic I am completely into sample manipulation, applieing stuff like fft's and from there you can convolve one sound into another..  So you gate noise by set a noise-gate (or gate) before the equalizer, you eq the sound, after the eq you use a compressor (insert 5), after the compression you put a filter (insert 6) now you can make sweet filter drops of the signal. To be really crazy put a bitcrushher on Insert (7) some automatic or play it with you midi controller. With the use of the auxilaries you can do some nice realtime processing on your sound. Now about the auxalary. My point of view is when you use the auxilaries the order is not that important. Of course there's an order. Can you reframe your question with for instance why do you want to know it and what do you want to achieve. With previous example of using inserts (like compression) it isi Auxilaries are in fact extra signal pads out and into the mixer (it's works the same with the normal daw's). From the audio channel you send the 'output' of the channel into the send path. This extra channel path you can patches it into a new channel or let it return via auxilary return on your console. With most daw's you can return the wet signal that a group (bus). On this way you can make drum bus. So when you cuttof the sound of the bus you don't hear the reverb wet sound of for instance a snaredrum). This is because of that the return channel is directly linked to master. Anyway on the consoles I have worked with. That's way it's is better to return it on your mixer via a new channel with input of reverb. You can roote it now to the group bus with the heavy cutoff. When use send 2 with for instance a flanger.. Keep in mind of those same thing. It's doesn't affect the orignele channel sound. But it is add up. With thing like compression then you affect the whole sound.. And then you think of the signal flow of your daw or mixer.  Ik hope it's a bit more clearer now.

Originally posted by : jette

Thanks for your answer! I actually never use the sends, I always use the inserts and then send those to the other inserts. Never tried sends in FL, only on an analog mixer. I wonder in what order they are processed. For example when I put a snare on insert 8 and send that insert to 1,2,3,6 in different amounts, will it go from 1 up or from maximum to down. Or random, dunno. I will try to find a more accurate equalizer to use for the master. Although the parametric eq 2 in FL is quite nice because of the visuals there, it lacks numbers. Maybe there is a combination to find somewhere. When I've found it I will post it here then.

Maybe it's smart to read some theory about equalizers and filters during morning breakfast. With the computer music magazine they also provide a dvd-with some junk. They also provide some tutorials in pdf format. Here's a link: http://www.computermusic.co.uk/page/computermusic?entry=free_beginner_pdfs www.synthforum.nl is a dutch orientated synthnerdies site. You should check it. There are a lot of nerdies, producers and sounddesigners around who are willing to explain something about soundstuff.

I use the inserts as in the picture I added. Here I send the audiofile to the mixer, and it's pre. But as u can see on the picture you can choose (at the place where your fx are loaded) how much signal you let being processed by the insert. And you can route this signal, (which is being processed by the fx) to another one. That's just the way I tend to work. There's on the right side of the mixer some sends, but I've never figured out how it works in FL. For now it has been enough to use just the inserts. But maybe it would be handy to know.

I'll have a look at the tutorial, but also have a few books at home (for example the Art of Sound Reproduction) so there's already a lot waiting to be read ;)

It's nonetheless a very nice subject, I find it wonderful that it there. :)

Oke so you can route a signal into the mixer to a particular insert. That seems okey but if's really handy that is some else. There you place the fx. With the delta distortion it's routed okey. Are you also use delayish kind of fx in that bus (insert) I have also added a simple overview about how I work in cubase. It's a bit the same for when I use logic or protools. Ofcourse where you place your fx in the signal chain you have to decide yourself.  In the picture of my I have used more signal channels where I use the auxilary fx.  It's possible to route a group to another group bus enzovoorts.. The sends you can also the route a signal to group bus for when you want layer a drumbus with a heavy compressed drumbus or other crazy stuff.. Auxilary you can use then as an extra path in the mixer.  On my music space that is stil in construction (I have troubles to make a nice layout for myspace). In the mye-sampledress (excerpt) after 0:30 you can hear bitcrushed synth where as later use as filter to convolve a  sequenced source synth in reaktor. Now I am typing it I realize that I can also route it as a auxilary fx. Where I can also feed others channel by send into the convolve device to do more crazy stuff. And then use automated mutes on the groupbus to cutoff dry sound so that you only can hear the wet convolved sound.  Using the inserts in that way you use seems oke. But try to play a bit more with the mixer, signal flow and make use of the sends for delays, flanger, phasers, chorus and reverb for example. Signals that have to be affect completely route it to an insert.  

http://forum.flstudio.nl/viewtopic.php?t=6260 But with filter it isn't wise to do it like this. For instance with 4 inserts that you want to apply then make a bus of an insert. 

So you can now make a drum bus, synth bus, drone and soundscape bus. So that you can devide the amount a channels in different busses for easier control. For instance for a drum bus I have linked 9 channels. Kick, Snare, hh, hh2, perc, perc1, crashleft, crashright.. With each if needed applied send reverb, delay, if needed insert compression, bitcrushed. The return of the auxilary you can send to a bus or master. Then on the bus you can apply multiband compression, 30 band eq. bitcrusher and filters for strange drops on the whole drums. It wil cost some cpu but so don't need other programs to make your mixdown.

Originally posted by : MarinuZz

So you can now make a drum bus, synth bus, drone and soundscape bus. So that you can devide the amount a channels in different busses for easier control. For instance for a drum bus I have linked 9 channels. Kick, Snare, hh, hh2, perc, perc1, crashleft, crashright.. With each if needed applied send reverb, delay, if needed insert compression, bitcrushed. The return of the auxilary you can send to a bus or master. Then on the bus you can apply multiband compression, 30 band eq. bitcrusher and filters for strange drops on the whole drums. It wil cost some cpu but so don't need other programs to make your mixdown.   most of the times I don't make special busses for special types of sound. I just listen to the different sounds the different fxchannels make when I send a sound to a bus and then decide if I send it to the bus, when I like it. Or make a new bus for that sound.

Originally posted by : jette

Originally posted by : MarinuZz

So you can now make a drum bus, synth bus, drone and soundscape bus. So that you can devide the amount a channels in different busses for easier control. For instance for a drum bus I have linked 9 channels. Kick, Snare, hh, hh2, perc, perc1, crashleft, crashright.. With each if needed applied send reverb, delay, if needed insert compression, bitcrushed. The return of the auxilary you can send to a bus or master. Then on the bus you can apply multiband compression, 30 band eq. bitcrusher and filters for strange drops on the whole drums. It wil cost some cpu but so don't need other programs to make your mixdown.               most of the times I don't make special busses for special types of sound. I just listen to the different sounds the different fxchannels make when I send a sound to a bus and then decide if I send it to the bus, when I like it. Or make a new bus for that sound.   Hmmm.. I don't think that you understand explenation. I can give some arguments and theory guidelines if you want. I don't wanna be showoff or something.. or something.. I just wanna give some tips about how you can get a good final mixing result. I know when I started to produce electronic music about some years to other 'friends' that produce where quite vage in their explanation. I still don't know why. I have learned audio engeering at SAE in Rotterdam and now I am studying Sonology at the conservatory in Den Haag. I know I am not a good dance producer or something and you don't have to study to make a good production. I have no problems with telling how I get to somekind of result with producing sound. Audio engeering is not something that I work everyday with. But even with composing/design sound I know this subject is a basic and very important thing. A good signalflow is one of the basic fundaments of a good production. For instance with due to rolling you have improved the mix a bit more. But it isn't good. You have to think more with sounds in groups a frequencies and place them correctly in the audio spectrum. Therefore you have to devide the sounds in signal flow at threaten them like the sounds deserves.  So you really should start to work like that. But this is something you will have to do decide for yourself. So just do it like that and if you want to know more about it. Don't eager to ask something. Next week I will have some more time to get into it.

A bit of topic :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcHnL7aS64Y&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ykZYy82eGs I am not a big John Cage fan. But his ideas about music are good. Dick Raaijmakers is just tha bom.. He's a hero of the dutch electronic popmusic.